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| Što je connect::portal? |
| Portal je mjesto za komunikaciju i razmjenu informacija među članovima
connecta koji povezuje hrvatske studente, edukatore i znanstvenike u inozemstvu i Hrvatskoj.
Članovi zajednice mogu dodavati tekstove po svojoj želji za koje misle da bi ostalima bili od interesa. (opširnije)
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| Izdvajamo |
 Connect::Portal::Gosti
dr.sc. Bojan Žagrović, znanstveni direktor MedILS-a
(opširnije)
Akademik Ivan Supek
(opširnije)
Prof.dr. Dražen Vikić-Topić
Tema gostovanja: nova pravila za prijavu znanstveno- istraživačkih projekata (opširnije)
Domagoj Račić
Tema gostovanja: "Otok znanja" (opširnije)
doc. dr. sc. Dragan Primorac
Tema gostovanja: postavite pitanje ministru(opširnije)
Dr. Miroslav Radman
Tema gostovanja: MedILS (opširnije)
Prof. dr. sc. Pero Lučin, predsjednik UO Nacionalne
Zaklade za
znanost, visoko školstvo i tehnologijski razvoj Republike Hrvatske (opširnije)
Connect::Portal::Osvrti
Rubrika u kojoj članovi Connecta objavljuju svoje analize,
osvrte,
intervjue, ...
Prijašnji prilozi :
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Predavanje : Galileo - svjetlo novog doba
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Poslao/poslala: Bojan Markičević
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2008.02.29. 18:20
Predavač :: Đuro Drobac, Institut za fiziku
Vrijeme :: 11.3.2008. (utorak) u 18h
Mjesto :: PMF, fizički odsjek, predavaona F102
Galileo
Galilei (1564 - 1642) jedan je od utemeljitelja znanosti (u današnjem
smislu), naročito eksperimentalne metode. Zbog svojih istraživanja i
rezultata (pogotovo astronomskih) došao je u sukob s dijelom tadašnjih
"znanstveno-obrazovnih institucija i pojedinaca" u kojeg se upleo i vrh
Katoličke crkve. Taj sukob sve
do današnjih dana izaziva rasprave, polemike i različita tumačenja. Ovo
predavanje je pregled glavnih događaja u tom sukobu od Galilejeva doba
do danas.
Vise informacija na: Cumez.org - portal kluba studenata PMF-a
O predavaču ::
Đuro Drobac, Rođen 1954 god. Studirao fiziku na PMF-u Sveučilišta u Zagrebu. Od 1981 god. radi kao eksperimentalni fizičar na Institutu za fiziku, danas kao viši znanstveni suradnik. Objavio je četrdesetak znanstvenih radova. Bavi se proučavanjem magnetskih svojstava tvari, a specijalnost mu je razvoj i izgradnja vrlo osjetljivih uređaja za mjerenje magnetskih veličina induktivnim metodama. Hobistički radi na popularizaciji fizike.
Na osnovu izuzetno zanimljive rasprave na portalu Link,
zaključili smo kako će Vam se ovo svidjeti. Radujemo se Vašem dolasku.|
Čisto da bih se mogao pravilno postaviti prema pozivu, volio bih znati - O čemu će konačno govoriti dr Drobac?
- Ako je predavanje nastavak " zanimljive rasprave" na portalu, kojoj je dr Drobac dao ozbiljnu "argumentaciju", recite mi jeste li predvidjeli jake zaštitarske snage, kako ne bi borbeni poklič o početku novoga sukoba znanosti i vjere, nakon Rima, završio u hodnicima PMF-a između vjernika i nevjernika? A ni talibani nisu tako daleko!
- Kako vidim da "hobistički radi na popularizaciji fizike" iz Vaše najave, podrazumjeva li to da se fizika ne može popularizirati za žive crkve?
I, malo objašnjenja - Što znači naslov? Je li Galileo svjetlo onoga doba, ili je pokret iz Rima - svjetlo novoga doba? |
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Prisustvovao sam jednom Djurinom predavanju o Galileu i svidjelo mi se iz ovih razloga:
1. Povijesna strana (o kojoj, priznajem, do tada nisam znao nista) je ispricana na objektivan nacin.
2. Predavnje je bilo interesantno i duhovito, tipicno za njegov nacin komunikacije.
Svakako preporucam otici i poslusati!
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Quote:
. Predavnje je bilo interesantno i duhovito, tipicno za njegov nacin komunikacije.
Svakako preporucam otici i poslusati!
Ma, vidio sam ja da je čovjek šaljivdžija. Odma' mi je laknulo.  |
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U novom broju New Scientista objavljen je intervju s prof. Carlom Bernardinijem, profesorom emeritusom na Sveucilistu Sapienza, koji je pomogao u vodjenju prosvjeda protiv Papima posjeta:
www.newscientist.com |
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| Onima koji nisu pretplaćeni na časopis NS link u #4 omogućuje pristup samo prvom dijelu teksta (preview only). Može li se nekako postirati cijeli tekst? Hvala. |
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Evo, kopirala sam cijeli intervju:
Interview: The physicist who stood up to the pope
05 March 2008
NewScientist.com news service
Stefania Maurizi
In January, a group of Italian physicists working at Rome's La Sapienza university made headlines when they protested against the pope being invited to speak at the opening of the academic year. The pope cancelled his visit, unleashing an angry debate about the influence of the church on science and society. Carlo Bernardini, an emeritus professor of physics, helped lead the protest. Critical of the church's attitude to issues from reproduction to pain treatment for the terminally ill, he tells Stefania Maurizi why it is time to fight back
You are 78 years old. What made you decide to take a public stand now and protest against the pope's visit?
My colleagues and I could not accept that the head of this foreign power - and I deliberately use the word "power" rather than "country" - would come here to give a talk.
Why not?
In this university we teach our students that they should learn to reason through inductive processes, to doubt what they learn through their personal interpretations, and to reject prejudices, which are widespread in the Catholic tradition. I do not believe it is possible to reconcile the dogmatic thinking of the Catholic church with the phenomenology on which scientific research is based. During the opening ceremony, our pro-rector read the talk the pope had wanted to give. In a nutshell, it said that science does not achieve any truth without faith, which is exactly why we thought the talk would be inappropriate.
Your critics say you should have allowed the pope to talk and then tackled his arguments afterwards. How do you reply to them?
There is no question and answer with the pope - and especially with this pope. He speaks the language of dogma. Just look at what happened to Father George Coyne, a Jesuit priest and astronomer who headed the Vatican Observatory for decades. Officially, he left the observatory in 2006 for health reasons. Unofficially, he was a victim of his outspoken criticism of intelligent design. Who is being intolerant here?
Do you believe the Catholic church is having a bad effect on Italian science in general?
What the Catholic hierarchies are doing to Italian science and society is very damaging. Conflicts about stem cells, assisted reproduction, AIDS, abortion, contraception and pain treatment for terminally ill patients are paralysing Italy. These issues are delicate; they will shape the future of our society. All over the world people are trying to address these things. They require evaluation rather than propaganda. You cannot discuss them in terms of emotional slogans or play on the ignorance of the Italian electorate, as the church does. It has made assisted reproduction the battlefield for a new crusade. Furthermore, I believe their aversion to pain treatment for terminally ill patients is abhorrent - they seem to believe that pain redeems human beings.
It's really the life sciences that have brought Catholics back to the battlefield. The life sciences give these people room to impose their fundamentalism on us. In physics, maths and chemistry, there is less room for ethical debates. Obviously we can discuss whether it is acceptable to use nuclear physics to make weapons, but we all support disarmament. There's nothing to discuss about the ethics of working with protons. But with the life sciences, I believe we are only at the beginning of this bitter confrontation.
Only 67 of you appealed against the pope's visit to La Sapienza. How much support do you have?
Only 67 of us signed the letter to our rector, however thousands of people are now supporting our initiative by signing online documents. What worried me was the reaction of the Italian media, commentators and even left-wing politicians. Their only argument was: these people are intolerant, they shut the pope's mouth. But the pope is talking continuously. It is we who have problems putting across our arguments. The church operates colleges and university centres all over the world. It owns radio and TV stations, newspapers, magazines.
A recent investigation by the Italian daily La Repubblica found that the Catholic church costs Italy roughly ¤ 4 billion a year.
I wonder why we should give such a huge amount of money to the church rather than, for example, charities such as Doctors Without Borders. Likewise, there are 25,000 religion teachers in Italy. They are paid by the state and enrolled by bishops, who do not select them via an exam, as happens with teachers all around the world, but rather according to their own criteria. When a teacher divorces and then remarries he or she is barred from teaching Catholic religion. What is the purpose of that? To indoctrinate children, because in Italy religious classes are not about the history of religions, but rather about the Catholic catechism. This is very bad: I would like people to keep their intellectual freedom. If those children want to become Catholic when they are adults, that is fine with me, but they have to choose freely.
Did you have a religious education as you were growing up?
I come from a family of intellectuals who set much store by education. My father greatly despised fascists, priests and the military. I had an education that made me suspicious of hierarchies and the truths that priests were talking about. However, I did not become suspicious of Jesus, a revolutionary figure who always sided with the poor, just as I am not suspicious of the Buddha or Confucius.
When you first came to study at La Sapienza in the 1950s, it was a golden era for Italian science and physics in particular. What happened?
It was an exciting place to be. Great physicists were working there, such as Edoardo Amaldi and Enrico Persico. Many things have happened since then, and now our decline is serious. Amaldi and Persico were talent scouts - they chose the best pupils and made them grow up. Today, the brain drain is stripping Italy of its most brilliant students. Lack of funding, bureaucracy, politics, the Catholic revival and the poor standing that science and culture have in today's society are making things worse.
Take the case of Luciano Maiani, the world-renowned physicist who was appointed head of the National Council for Research just before the controversy about the pope broke out. He signed the appeal against the pope's visit and some right-wing politicians questioned his appointment. He will probably get the appointment, but I think those politicians may have wanted him to get the message: you touch the pope, you die.
Profile
Carlo Bernardini was born in Lecce, Italy, in 1930. He graduated in physics at University of Rome La Sapienza in 1952. He contributed to the building of the first electron-positron collider. A full professor of mathematical methods for physics at La Sapienza, he is a former senator and co-founder of the Italian Union of Scientists for Disarmament. |
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Hvala za članak.
Dodao bih komentar akademika Paara u interviewu Hrvatskom listu:
"U pogledu nedopuštanja papi Benediktu da posjeti sveučilište, samo ću vam reći da je papa veći fizičar od svih njih na tom sveučilištu."
Samo se pitam: zašto u Hrvatskoj nitko ne reagira na takve komentare?
Franjo Sokolić |
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Glede odnosa prema terapiji boli, nakon 1 minute na Googleu
nalazim referencu:
... the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church in § 2279 reads:
Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable. Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.
Tako se čini da se prof. Bernardini nije oslanjao na autoritativne
izvore, ili je pomiješao terapiju boli sa eutanazijom.
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Na #8:
Quote:
Tako se čini da se prof. Bernardini nije oslanjao na autoritativne
izvore, ili je pomiješao terapiju boli sa eutanazijom.
Što je pomiješao? Pravo na eutanaziju se između ostalog i zahtijeva kao "pain treatment for the terminally ill". Bernardini nigdje nije rekao da su painkilleri problem. Straw man argument, kolega. Školski primjer.
(Osim toga, gornji paragraf bi se formalno-pravno mogao tumačiti kao dopuštenje eutanazije kao pain treatment for the terminally ill. Eutanazija koristi kemijska sredstva "to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days", te se ta sredstva na temelj gornje formulacije mogu okarakterizirati kao prihvatljivi painkilleri.) |
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Na #7:
Quote:
Samo se pitam: zašto u Hrvatskoj nitko ne reagira na takve komentare?
Mislim da se komentar akademika Paara odnosio na na prve potpisnike. Jasno je da su fizičari kao L. Maiani vrlo renomirani, no pitanje papina govora nije stvar znanosti već je više politika. Ako i malo znate profil La Sapienze i političku scenu Italije onda je to prilično jasno.
Na #6:
Bernardinijev je tekst po meni dosta ideološki obojen - da ne znam tko je autor kladio bih se da je nastao 1945. - pretjeruje sa strahom od indoktrinacije djece. Vjerujem da nije Catholic revival kriv za pad znanosti u Italiji već likovi poput Bernardinija.
Luciano Maiani je, po mojem sjećanju, bio generalni direktor CERN-a kad je CERN u u jednoj godini proizveo manjak od milijarde DM. Mislim da to može biti ozbiljniji problem kod imenovanja nego teorija zavjere o moćnom papi.
Intelligent design nije nauk Katoličke crkve.
Na #8:
Meni se čini vaš komentar izvrsnim.
Na #9:
Citirani tekst u #8 je, po meni, vrlo jasan:
Quote:
... the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church in § 2279 reads:
Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable. Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.
Eutanazija se ovim tekstom ne dopušta. Težište je na if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable.
Takozvani effectus duplex.
-bg- |
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Quote:
Eutanazija se ovim tekstom ne dopušta. Težište je na if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable.
Takozvani effectus duplex.
Jasno mi je što je effectus duplex. Jedino što bi Vam ovdje za pravno učinkovitu provedbu trebala mind police. Netko tko želi eutanaziju za sebe slobodno može tvrditi "I do not will death as an end or as means", i reći da želi tretman koji će mu u ime olakšanja bolova skratiti ostatak života na ukupno petnaest minuta. Zašto bi katekizam katoličke crkve postavljao granice tog tipa i interpretirao ljudske namjere? Malo tko na koga se Bernardinijeva izjava odnosilawills death as either end or means, kolega. No radi se o ljudima koji su u takvim mukama da bi bez oklijevanja sami skočili s krova - kad bi se mogli ustati iz kreveta. A ne mogu. Zlurad čovjek bi papi poželio takav kraj, čisto da vidi bi li mu tada katekizam bio važniji od užasne, bezizlazne patnje. |
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Na #11:
Davanje lijekova da se izbjegne patnja je dopušteno sve do ranije smrti. Davanje s tom namjerom. To znači isključiti sve druge namjere. Držim da je to prije svega pitanje savjesti.
Ili 'mind police' kako vi velite. Pretjerano je tvrditi da bi ovaj papa želio i održavao bezizlazne patnje. Ali lijek se daje da ukloni bol i izbjegne patnja a ne s namjerom da se ubije. To je effectus duplex.
-bg- |
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| Na #12; Sve jasno i sve se slažem. Ako je to pitanje savjesti, onda bi u slobodnoj zemlji svatko trebao moći postupiti po svojoj. Mišljenje vrha katoličke crkve ne bi trebalo pravno obvezivati nikoga - naročito ne one koji ne smatraju da toj crkvi pripadaju. (Ili drugim riječima, slobodni građanin sekularne države bi trebao smjeti reći papi i inom svećenstvu "Ne petljajte mi se u život. Nisam vas zvao i niste dobrodošli." U tom smislu podržavam Bernardinijev stav i smatram da se nikom ne treba ispričavati za njega.) |
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Komentiranje i uvid u autore komentara je omoguceno clanovima Connect
zajednice. Kako biste se ukljucili, ispunite kratak formular i registrirajte se.
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znanost.org
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CONNECT
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Nebo na Poklon
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Svemirsko ljeto 2007
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Ljetna skola astronomije
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Ljudski boravak u Svemiru
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Sastanak FHA 2007
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Skola Medijskog Pracenja
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Casopis INDECS
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SIWA 2007
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Edukacija
2008.11.19. 23:41h CET